tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4423802276620945726.post5152765129329842298..comments2023-10-31T06:32:05.082-05:00Comments on Biblical Manhood: More Thoughts on the "Child-Man" BallyhooAnakin Niceguyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09175647581810782580noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4423802276620945726.post-88899266523538736662008-02-07T11:50:00.000-06:002008-02-07T11:50:00.000-06:00In my last post, I wrote:From those who do deign t...In my last post, I wrote:<BR/><BR/><B>From those who do deign to mention divorce, we usually hear something like the following:<BR/><BR/><I>Yes, divorce is an issue, but let’s discuss the root of the problem – perpetual adolescence among young men.</I></B><BR/><BR/>A perfect example of this is Dr. Albert Mohler’s Boundless article <A HREF="http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001244.cfm" REL="nofollow"> Reflecting on "The Mystery of Marriage"</A><BR/><BR/><I>Now, to the hard part. Demographic trends, cultural shifts, and a weakening of the biblical concept of marriage have produced a situation in which marriage is in big trouble, even among many Christians. Divorce must be listed first among the ills that have befallen marriage in recent decades, but at the New Attitude Conference I was asked to address young singles who had not yet married. While the problem of divorce must always be acknowledged and confronted with biblical truth, in speaking to never-married single Christians my purpose was to point them to the glory of God in the comprehensive goodness of marriage. Speaking to that audience, I addressed a problem much closer at hand.<BR/>By any calculation, the statistics indicate that young adults are marrying much later in life than at any time in recent human history. As a matter of fact, demographers have suggested that this new pattern of delay in marriage has established a statistical pattern that in previous generations had been most closely associated with social crises like war and natural disaster.<BR/><BR/>[…]<BR/><BR/>I shared with those who attended the conference my concern that this delay — the deliberate putting off of marriage even among some who intend some day to be married — was "the sin I think besets this generation." Continuing, I also made clear that this is primarily a problem that should be laid at the feet of young men. <B>While some young women may neglect the call of marriage, a far greater problem is the unwillingness of many young men to grow up, take responsibility, lead, and find the woman God would have them to marry. As a rule, young women show far greater commitment to marriage, far greater maturity about marriage, and far greater frustration about the fact that marriage has been delayed.</B></I><BR/><BR/>First, I think it speaks volumes that Mohler is apparently blind to the connection between divorce and delayed marriage; as if they are two completely separate phenomena.<BR/><BR/><B>Divorce must be listed first among the ills that have befallen marriage in recent decades, but at the New Attitude Conference I was asked to address young singles who had not yet married….Speaking to that audience, I addressed a problem much closer at hand.<BR/>By any calculation, the statistics indicate that young adults are marrying much later in life than at any time in recent human history.</B><BR/><BR/>I cannot even begin to comprehend such cluelessness. This is not to insult Dr. Mohler, but for Pete’s sake – is it that hard to see?<BR/><BR/>Second, while he can clearly see the connection between commitment and marriage, he is blind (again) to <I>the connection between commitment and divorce</I>.<BR/><BR/><B>While some young women may neglect the call of marriage, a far greater problem is the unwillingness of many young men to grow up, take responsibility, lead, and find the woman God would have them to marry. As a rule, young women show far greater commitment to marriage, far greater maturity about marriage, and far greater frustration about the fact that marriage has been delayed.</B><BR/><BR/>Let’s rewrite the above to provide some balance<BR/><BR/><I>While some young men may neglect the call to sticking with marriage after walking down the aisle, a far greater problem is the unwillingness of many young women to grow up, take responsibility, submit, and stay with the man God led them to marry. As a rule, young men show far greater commitment to marriage, far greater maturity about marriage, and far greater frustration about the fact that many marriages are deserted by wives who are unwilling to ‘stick it out’, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer.</I><BR/><BR/>This blindness among our leaders, a result of imbibbing too much of worldy culture I suspect, is a big part of our problem.wombattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264811733162299968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4423802276620945726.post-42598459480627983772008-02-07T10:52:00.000-06:002008-02-07T10:52:00.000-06:00On her blog, Dr. Helen Smith (wife of Instapundit...On her blog, Dr. Helen Smith (wife of <A HREF="http://www.instapundit.com/" REL="nofollow"> Instapundit </A> Glenn Reynolds), <A HREF="http://pajamasmedia.com/2008/02/ask_dr_helen_8.php" REL="nofollow"> addresses </A><BR/>Hymowitz’s piece on ‘child-men’. A couple of excerpts:<BR/><BR/><I>We interviewed her [Hymowitz] for a podcast on the Glenn and Helen Show and she seemed to be level-headed and understanding—but I guess everyone has their blind spot <B>when it comes to why men don’t toe the line and provide society with what it needs or wants despite little reward and plenty of headache for being a modern day husband and father</B>. Instead, Hymowitz, like so many other writers and naysayers blames men for not marrying because their “default state” is perpetual adolescence…<BR/><BR/>[…]<BR/><BR/>Yep, it’s just that freewheeling marketplace or an avoidance of deep attachments or whatever that is keeping men from taking marriage seriously, settling down and having kids. But I don’t think that’s the whole story. What Hymowitz misses is that men are on a marriage strike, not necessarily because they are perpetual adolescents or avoiding deep attachments to others but because the reward for being an adult in our society is so low, especially for men. <BR/>It’s really simple Psychology 101 (or Economics 101) — make something negative enough and people will avoid it, make it positive, and more people will engage in that particular behavior.<BR/>Nowadays, for many men, the negatives of marriage for men often outweigh the positives. Therefore, they engage in it less often. Not because they are bad, not because they are perpetual adolescents, but because they have weighed the pros and cons of marriage in a rational manner and found the institution to be lacking for them. It’s a sensible choice for some and the video games, magazines, and humor websites that Hymowitz disses are a way to fill one’s time with fun activities that don’t tell you that you suck, are an “unfinished person,” emotionally detached or on your way to jail for fake domestic violence charges. People used to treat men better than this.<BR/>Now, Atlas is shrugging and everyone is coming out of the woodwork to explain why. But like reader Eric said, if you want to know why fewer men are getting married, go to the source, go ask some actual men and really listen to what they have to say. You may be surprised to find out how grown-up, adult and rational single young men really are.</I><BR/><BR/>How refreshing, a little straight-up common sense – make something more costly, and you’ll get less of it. No one is saying that immaturity isn’t a factor for some men, but, as Dr. Helen says, <I>it’s not the whole story</I>. This is contrary to most in the Church who, when addressing this issue, all but come out and say that <B>it is</B> the whole story. From the likes of Maken we hear that invocations of divorce (like feminism) are simply ‘bogeys’, a convenient excuse for immature men to avoid growing up. From those who do deign to mention divorce, we usually hear something like the following:<BR/><BR/><I>Yes, divorce is an issue, but let’s discuss the root of the problem – perpetual adolescence among young men.</I><BR/><BR/>It’s a lot easier to ‘join the crowd’ and flog the currently popular whipping boy than confront the fact that divorce is just as much a problem in the Church as elsewhere and that women are far more likely to initiate it than are men. <BR/><BR/>Just as the principal <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Economics-Common-Sense-Economy/dp/0465002609/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202402285&sr=8-1" REL="nofollow"> Basic Economics </A> above helps explain the decline in marriage, the flip-side of that same principal throws light on the high divorce rate: make something less expensive (or, better yet, profitable) and you’ll get more of it. Divorce is not only cheap for women, it is sometimes downright profitable. Thus we get more divorce...<BR/><BR/>Maken and her ilk like to bemoan the fact that church leaders neglect their duty of encouraging young men to marry but when was the last time you heard them take the same leaders to task about neglecting to confront divorce in the church? (This, despite they fact that the Bible’s teaching against divorce is <B>explicit</B> whereas the ‘mandate to marry’ is, at best, implicit). This would, in part, entail reminding their congregants (especially women) that, outside of a couple of exceptions, divorce is a SIN that God HATES. <BR/><BR/>The problem is that this would require pointing out the fact that, in the arena of divorce, <I>it is primarily women who have been shirking their personal responsibilities</I>. Speaking of 'adultescence' and immaturity...<BR/><BR/>As Triton once pointed out on his blog<BR/><BR/><I>…anyone can get married, it takes commitment to stay married</I><BR/><BR/>Seen from this angle, the men who eschew marriage due to such considerations do so, not because <I>they</I> are afraid to commit, but because they justifiably fear that <I>women</I> cannot or will not do so.<BR/><BR/>Some men are the problem, <I>but so are some women</I>. We sorely need more balance in this discussion within the churchwombattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11264811733162299968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4423802276620945726.post-5112121195042181102008-02-07T09:33:00.000-06:002008-02-07T09:33:00.000-06:00Very interesting *seeing* all this through a man's...Very interesting *seeing* all this through a man's eyes.<BR/><BR/>I was in a Bible study about 11-12 years ago. The teacher was my mother's age. I remember one thing she said vividly because it was the first time I'd ever heard such a thing. She said, "It is the girl's/woman's responsibility to say, 'No,' when it comes to a physical relationship with a boy/guy/man outside of marriage." <BR/><BR/>I am blessed that God covered me in such a way that promiscuity was never an issue for me given the home and environment and beach-culture I grew up in. But I remember being disappointed in guys back then that I had to be the one to set the boundary ... until I heard her speak those words. <BR/><BR/>I'm simply sharing my story, so please don't attack me here ... there were no boundaries in my house growing up, and my parents abused me in every way. Somewhere I thought that being a Christian and dating "Christian" boys I could "release" that responsiblity to them and not have to worry about it. I wasn't taught that I could and should have my own boundaries, that boundaries were not only good and healthy but necessary.<BR/><BR/>Blending that with what you've written ... thinking about all the warnings of "wayward" women in Proverbs ... just processing all this ... thinking of all the girls/women I have known and do know who don't think having sex whenever with whomever cannot be justified in some way. <BR/><BR/>I get it. Not that I haven't known that this is true and even "why" ... but reading how you have articulated this gives me more understanding. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>Sex outside of marriage has never been appealing to me ... tempting, yes, but never appealing. I don't get why that appeals to women ... clearly, they're just shootin themselves down ... and not simply because God says it's wrong. The reasons why God says it's wrong are playing themselves out on such a wide, global scale. They may think they can have their cake and eat it, too ... but it only looks good on the outside. On the inside it's rotten.Amehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14358641966141610513noreply@blogger.com