A blog for Christian men "going their own way."

Saturday, November 21, 2009

Amir Alerts Yours Truly to a Stupid Post

Amir gets the hat tip for this: Motte Brown has posted a video of "cussing pastor" Mark Driscoll talking about manhood. I wanted to make a response to the post but Boundless' website would not accept my comments. Motte obliquely mentions "niceguys" in his post. I wonder who he had in mind.

A couple of problems with Driscoll's rant:

1. Driscoll needs to stop using "Lord" and OMG as interjections. Such indifferent uses of the designations for Deity are irreverent and possibly a violation of the prohibition against taking the Lord's name in vain.

2. The realmannspracht, anti-male cheap shots, shaming language, and extrabiblical, cultural understandings of manhood. Sorry, but contrary to Driscoll's functionalism and misuse of 1 Cor. 11:7, manhood is not dependent on "producing" (just as God's deity is not dependent on Creation).

3. Throwing the bit in about being married. Getting married is not necessary to be an adult. Did you see anything in the Bible about John the Baptist getting married? I rest my case.

4. Belittling the serious issues men have with the modern church. Thank you, Mr. Driscoll. Keep it up, and men will be sure to stay even further away from church.

5. Belittling Christian men. See #4, buddy.

Granted, Driscoll had a lot of good points (myth of adolescence, men to need to be responsible, men need to be resolute and bold for Christ, etc.). Even my readers from the Roissysphere will love his mention of "Game." Sadly, his good points were derailed by his overall lack of insight not only into lives of men but into other truths in the Word of God.

The overarching problem here is the spread of what Michael Horton calls "Christless Christanity." Who is Driscoll's target audience? Probably women who want stereotypical tough guys instead of the socially awkward men that God can use (1 Cor. 1:26-28). Or maybe nominal Christian men who are too clueless to read and study their Bibles in-depth, and would rather listen to some glorified motivational speaker spoon-feed the exegetical equivalent of Crystal Light(tm) to them. Look at Driscoll's presentation again. One or two Scriptures quoted out of context and misapplied, at best, and a shoot-from-hip, street smart rhetoric. I'm not impressed.

Edit: Mark Driscoll's Garth Brooks style, contemporary worship shtick is just as hopelessly culture bound as a church full of blue hairs singing the hymn "What Shall It Be" to the drone of a Wurlizter.


Talleyrand said...

The christless christianity has come from the churches rejection of the masculine god in favor of the feminine one.

The more they try to shame, the less power they have

Amir Larijani said...

Seems to me he is assegeting, not exegeting. There is a lot he has literally pulled out of his ass, as much of what he is saying has no connection to Luke 1:80.

He also seems to be speaking quite hyperbolically, making it sound like all these Christian men are sitting around downloading porn, playing games on their X-boxes, trying to bed as many women as they can and down as many beers as they can.

(At the same time, he complains that all these Christian men--who are bedding women--can't seem to get up the courage to ask a girl out. Anyone else notice that faux pas?)

I'm not saying that there are no men to whom that applies, but he's framing things in terms of worst-case scenarios to make his pulpit a bully pulpit. He's clearly getting too big for his proverbial britches.

I've been in many different churches over the course of my 24 years of adulthood. I can think of less than ten men I've met, who partially fit that profile.

I also found it amusing that he is using marriage as a marker for "manhood", when in fact John the Baptist apparently never married.

Overall, there should be a conversation about "extended adolescence", but taking a passage and using it as a pretext to impose your own cultural standards--which are not mentioned in the passage in question--is wrongly dividing the word of truth.

The fact that some men will fit that profile, hardly gives us license to allow preachers to wrongly handle scripture to make their cases.

CS said...

There are a few valid points sprinkled in with gratuitous generalizations. If what he says about men is typical of the average man who attends his church, then his church must be filled with effeminate, passive she-males.

I would describe this speech (there's nothing life-changing in it that I can see) as 'Good Intentions Gone Wild'. The fact of the matter is that the word of God is silent about John the Baptist's upbringing aside from generalizations. The speech maker draws unfounded conclusions about John the Baptist's teen years based upon nothing scriptural and are his opinion entirely.

The tone in which this was delivered makes me wonder if he has a real problem with men that he's trying to exorcise by bashing them. I do not see the spirit of Christ in this speech. And lacking that, there is nothing life-giving in the speech.

Anonymous said...

Here's the comment I left; doubtful it will be published there:

Ted Slater needs to comment on this. He needs to associate himself – or disassociate himself – with some of the ideas presented here, as well as some this speaker’s ideas off-site. Back when Debbie Maken published a screed containing scurilious ideas like “shaming” single Christian men, she was allowed a forum on Boundless for some of her ideas; and Boundless never quite got around to dealing with some of her off-site opinions. Delete me for snarkiness if you must, but do figure out a way, please, to reconcile this guy’s ideas about finding a wife with Scott Croft’s “Biblical Dating.”

The last thing that single Christian men need is to be thought of -- or to think of themselves -- as victims. But Boundless and other "helpful" organizations need to use the model in the early book of Acts. When the Greek speaking widows thought they were being short-changed in respect to aid from the community, they chose some men from the Greek speaking community to fix the problem. I understand I'm stretching the metaphor, but look at that they did: They actually lifted up the people who had been dissed.

Can you imagine Boundless promoting a 'day of respect and prayer" for Single Christian Men? Can you imagine them making speeches imploring Christian women to intercede a day out of month for them? How about giving thanks to God for men who walk in Holiness in the face of the world?

Well, I can't see them getting around to it.

We need to come up with a manifesto to spam into a few million mailboxes.

Dani said...

The tone in which this was delivered makes me wonder if he has a real problem with men that he's trying to exorcise by bashing them. I do not see the spirit of Christ in this speech. And lacking that, there is nothing life-giving in the speech.

Amen. That was my first thought when I saw this clip a little while back.

Some Dude said...

I saw that post over at Boundless, also. I also thought it was iffy, at best. Out of three verses about John the Baptist, he got those five pillars of manhood? That's a real stretch.

LadyElaine said...

agreed. I think it's all talk....in my experience, when you call out those who complain the loudest about this issue on whether they're actually involved in mentoring and discipling men, they get really quiet.....

Anonymous said...

baptist john is a REAL man, the rarest being in this universe . . . now, who was it demanded (and got) his head on a platter?

same as it ever was, life during wartime

dunno who any of these self-proclaimed "ministers" cited above are, but none of them were chosen, much less endorsed, by jesus

god aint a democracy

come out of her