I have discovered menleavechurch.com and it makes me angry and sad. I am grieved not so much at the webmaster as I am at the people and institutions that made his slide towards atheism so much easier. I want to thank all the marriage mandators, the misandrists and woman-firsters in sheep's clothing, all the Christian women who have a prima donna attitude, spiritually complacent religious leaders, men with their heads stuck in the sand, sanctimonious believers, and institutionalized religion itself for turning yet another single man away from God. He is not the first man I've seen become a spiritual causality of organized religion's callous indifference or animosity towards men. I fear that he will not be the last.
When I first stumbled across his site, I thought I found another brother-in-arms in the fight against religious misandry. It's been a lonely trek for me in the blogosphere on this issue and the occasional companions have been few and far in between. All too often, others only partially address the subject. Other times, the discussion gets derailed by counterproductive proposals involving some form of macho Christianity or the such like. When it comes to expectations, one set of hoops for men to jump through like little puppy dogs is often exchanged for another set by those who claim to be sticking up for men. Regrettably, the damage has been done for the guy who runs menleavechurch.com.
It's been a depressing week for me and my discovery of menleavechurch.com is the icing on the cake. Let me take this opportunity to express my dismay at the folly and arrogance of other human beings. Have a good weekend, folks.
Another bad cop
2 years ago
13 comments:
This blogger's problems with the church, and with the Christian faith, seem to go deeper than the gynocentric nature of the church.
He accurately diagnoses the female-dominated nature of the church (more pronounced in the U.K. churches, maybe) but he has issues about Calvinism (predestination, limited atonetment). He seems to have become embittered toward the faith in general, which is a shame.
I am praying for this soul who is in evident torment.
Reading the posts that Mr. Dark Horse has written, I'm not entirely certain that Churchianity ran him off or if he was already predisposed to hating on it.
He's correct that churches often do a lot to push guys out. And given that American churches are likely more observant on the whole than ones in the UK, I imagine that it is worse there than here.
I hope he comes back. Whether he knows it or not, he has the choice. That God already knows what choice he'll make--I don't want to address the Calvinist predestination argument here--doesn't undermine the choice that he has.
I agree with anonymous--I think this guy's spiritual problems run pretty deep.
I agree, it seems that he is just angry at church in general more than its ignoring single men (or all men) in particular. Nonetheless, his discouragement and lack of faith don't prevent him from seeing some glaring issues in the church that hit close to home for him.
In particular, his "No Place for Single Men" post is rather on the money. I'd say all but his last two points, and maybe the fifth, are spot on. Regardless of exactly why he's no longer communing in a church these days, it's fair to speculate that the U.K. church probably didn't do much to encourage his spiritual growth. And so the exodus continues...
Sorry you had a bad week, Anakin.
Maybe this will cheer you up.
I found the God of the Bible outside of church, though I do fellowship with other disciples.
My heart goes out to this blogger and as others have noted, his problems do go deeper than the impotent church he so accurately describes.
The organized chuch, well-meaning as it is, does bear guilt for preventing many people from knowing the God who they seek. May God change this terrible predicament so that many will know Him and the freedom He so freely gives.
I'm not buying it either. The guy has lots of other issues. The Matriarchal nature of many churches is definitely a serious problem, but that's hardly the be-all/end-all.
I can see where some elements of Reform Theology--especially limited atonement and double predestination--can be tough to handle, but membership in the Body is hardly contingent on one's acceptance of those two elements.
The larger issue is one of the Lordship and Creatorship of Jesus Christ. If He is Lord and Creator, then the implicit sovereignty allows for Him to render Creation as He sees fit.
One of the most sobering facts about God--and this is evident throughout the OT--is that He owes nothing good to any of us.
He struck down Onan for playing Vatican Roulette, had men stoned to death for collecting sticks on the Sabbath, struck down large numbers of people for improper handling of the Ark of the Covenant, and ordered the deaths of entire cities and villages (men, women, and children).
God is unelected, and our Western democratic ideals--and expectations of decency and pleasantry--often become hindrances to our understanding of God.
Calvinism--Reform Theology--attempts to approach the Scriptures with that total sovereignty of God in mind.
While that leads to some unsettling theological conclusions--in spite of my Reform leanings, I'm not going to lie and say that I like all of those conclusions--I'd say the larger issue for the guy is not so much Calvinism but rather the premise that God is capable of doing things that would otherwise seem troubling to us.
struck down large numbers of people for improper handling of the Ark of the Covenant
I liked it when the Nazi leader's face melted off. ;)
OK, I'm going to throw my hat into this ring. I believe this guy (menleavingchurch), while I am praying for him, may be an example of Hebews 6:4-6, 10:26-31, and 1 John 5:16b. I thank God for helping me in understanding those passages with His guidence as I was once TORMENTED thinking that applied to me. Also, I am well aware of Romans 9. I am neither a Calvanist or an Arminian (I believe both sides miss the SIMPLICITY of Christ's Salvation explained in John 3:16-18.) This fellow sounds like he was once enlightened, TASTED the heavanly gifts and fell away - and while technically thee is hope for him, realistically, his heart may be so hardened had wilfully sinned trampling theSon of God underfoot, treating the Cross as a common thing thusly sinning which leads to spiritual death.
Having said all that, this gynocentered feminized western church made that slide easier as Biblical Manhood pointed out, and we must remember that the LORD will judge churches and indeed His Church before He judges the world. Pastors are held to a more strict accountability. And in modern times, it has been messy at best!
Dan
"I have discovered menleavechurch.com and it makes me angry and sad...I want to thank all the marriage mandators, the misandrists and woman-firsters in sheep's clothing, all the Christian women who have a prima donna attitude, spiritually complacent religious leaders, men with their heads stuck in the sand..."
More than the first half your list blames the usual MGTOW targets, natch. By concurring as such, you're essentially enabling him to blame others (women), despite the fact that he obviously (obvious, at least, to most here) has other issues.
Aren't any of you concerned that by nursing this prolonged "conversation" about how women are driving men away from church that you might actually be enabling some guys with some pretty serious issues? Or perhaps paving way for those with minor issues to have major issues? For example, exaggerating the risks of divorce to young guys who have maybe had one or two unsuccessful dating experiences?
It wasn't that long ago when people were asking those same questions about feminism, like, who are those women complaining loudest? Are their experiences representative of all women? If there's a false impression that they are, what will that really do to the status of women?
Although these questions really aren't that critical in the application of MGTOW, something that will never become mainstream, because of its transparent selective attention and exaggeration of partial truths. More moderate voices, such as David Murrow's get heard because they are balanced and rational -- they do not take a women blaming stance.
MLC complains about Calvinism, suggesting an evangelical experience that would in all likeihood involve leaders who are men rather than female, even then, with so many women outnumbering men attending evangelical churches, perhaps we should be marvelling that the church isn't even more feminized than it is.
Catwoman: no meow? You're slipping.
Seriously, most of the respondents here seem to be of the opinion that the person in question has a host of other issues in play here.
I get the impression that, in this case, feminism is at best a tangential issue.
Triton: LOL. Hard to believe that movie is 28 years old this year.
"Catwoman: no meow? You're slipping."
Cat - ding - I'm a kitty cat, and I dance, dance, dance...
Go to youtube and enter key words: kitty cat dance
You'll love it!!
Hello, I happen to be the webmaster for menleavechurch.com.
If you're wondering where I stand, I would probably say I think there is something or someone "out there", but beyond that I don't know.
I had a spiritual experience 15 years ago, but it left me unchanged. This has happened only once or twice in my entire 30 years of churchgoing.
Although I believe that the "church" has betrayed me, I no longer care about it much. I don't write new stuff for my blog much these days and have concentrated on other more positive things.
The last prayer I prayed was that if God sent me to hell, then he would also send all the teachers and preachers I have ever heard to hell as well, and give them double the punishment. If none of the other thousands of prayers I have prayed are ever answered, if this one is answered I will be content.
I don't live my life in fear of hell. I know not whether or not it exists, or what happens after death, and I doubt the apostle Paul really knew either.
Time to live life to the full!
Thanks for reading.
best wishes,
Jonathan Castro
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